It happens. Not AGW, just normal variations in climate.
Video responses in comments
I’m going to attempt to put a picture in this comment, but it probably won’t work…
Nope, didn’t work. But you can click on the link to see it.
July 22, 2011. 101% in East Texas. Unusual? No. July is always hot in Texas. If it wasn’t hot, one could say, “the climate is changing”. I once wrote an article picked up by the Magizine called the Economist. In the article I stated an experience I had in about 1964, maybe a bit later. There was a drilling operation for oil being carried out in the remote region of the North Slope on the Polar Ice cap called the Berring Sea. Approx. 2500 feet below the ice cap was the floor of the Berring Sea. Since there is no surface pipe “run” through the ice cap until the sea floor is reached, there was a huge washed out hole underneath the substructure of the drilling rig. They used hot brine water for drilling to wash out the cuttings. This resulted in a very large hole 8-10 feet diameter. Since this was an exploritority well, samples were caught of the cuttings from the drilling operations on a regular basis.
Once the drill bit hit the sea floor large pieces of ancient cottonwood trees were washed to the surface, brought to the surface by the warm brine water used for washing out and up the drill bit cuttings.
Obviously the seabed of the Berring Sea was once the mean level of the ground where vegetation grew. Take your choice. Either the ground sunk or the sea level rose. One thing is certain, cottonwood trees are subtropical trees and the artic regions of the world have undergone drastic climatic changes the last 10,000 years or someone has gone to an extremely difficult task of placing 10,000 year old cottonwood trees at the bottom of the Berring Sea. In short, Climatic Change is nothing new, there was indeed an ice age that ended 10,000 years ago. However this creates a problem for the christians that would subscribe to the teachings of Arch-Bishop Ushner who adamntly declare the earth to be younger than 10,000 years.
if you type:
<img src=”http://bluebirdofbitterness.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/hot.png” />
Thanks, red pill. I knew there was something I wasn’t doing right! Still learning the ropes…
Even by Biblical estimates, Earth could not be less than 10,000 years old. Human civilization, by itself is about 6,000 years old, but the Earth has to be much older.
From His perspective, a day is 1000 years and 1000 years is a day. God created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th. There is a minimum of 7000 years, assuming those first 6 days were all back to back; and this was before He created Adam. It is hard to say how much time passed between Adam and The Great Flood, but looking at the generations, one can estimate not less than 3000 years at a bare minimum (Methusaleh alone lived some 900+) and at least another 3000+ before the Exodus from Egypt, which itself is estimated to be about 1250 BC. Add those up and you get a minimum of 14000 years before Christ came to Earth, add the 2000 years since then and you have at least 16000 years and that is estimating from the assumption of bare minimum time passage between the events of Earth’s creation, Adam, the Flood, Moses, Christ and today. How much longer would it be if any of those bare minimum times was extended substantially?
Consider this, Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light “; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good ; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.”
Jump to:Gen. 1:14 “Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years ; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth “; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night ; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness ; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.”
Obviously the first three or four days were not literal periods of three or four 24 hour solar days as we know them today simply because the sun and/or moon was /were not created until the fourth day. Also:
2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life ; and man became a living being. 8 The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden ; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. ”
It would appear God made everything in one day if we use the rational of God creating everything in six 24 hour solar days in Genesis 1.
WHAT????? Time is meaningless for a God that lives and has lived for eternity. One day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day??????
The word “civilization” is taken from an ancient word that means “city”. The city Hamoukar is now the oldest known city in the world. The dating of Hamoukar predates Adam. Also research the Assyrian Eponym List. There is a list of Eponymous Kings that predates any other civilization (city?) by thousands of years (approx. 30,000-38,000s of years).
In a comparison of Egypt to Assyria God, through the prophet Ezekiel, says the Assyrians were in the garden of God (Ezekiel 31). The only garden of God I know of was called the Garden of Eden. That, indeed, shines a light on just what the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil was. It was similiar to a family tree, a national tree, a family tree. The Assyrians descended from a line of of peoples called Sumerians, AKA Chaldeans. Abram, later called Abraham, was from UR, the land of the Chaldeans. That is to say, Sumer, located in the country known as Mesopotamia. The “Land Between The Rivers”, the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Today we call it Iraq, anciently known as Babylon.
Through the Assyrian Eponym List almost the entire Old Testament can be dated and proven.”The Battle of Qarqar (or Ḳarḳar) was fought in 853 BC when the army of Assyria led by king Shalmaneser III encountered an allied army of 12 kings at Qarqar”.
The eponym tablets (clay tablets) lists many important events, some of which are recorded in the biblical records. An example of the Eponym list which says there was a revolt in the city of Ashur in the month of Simanu, during which time an eclipse of the sun took place. Astronomers know that this eclipse took place on June 15, 763B.C. so we can lock onto this date historically.
This is a usable “ANCHOR DATE or point” for dating the Old Testament. By locking onto that date and looking at the Eponyms (Kings) who are listed on down through the years, we learn several important things. We can secure the date of 853 BC for the battle of Qarqar. We know from the Assyrian records, that it involved Shalmaneser III; that it was a battle between Assyrians and Syrians; and that Ahab was present in that battle. We also know that Ahab died in 853 B.C. during a battle in which he encouraged Jehosephat to join him against Syria (1st Kings 22:1-35).
Twelve years later there is a reference to the occasion when Jehu gave tribute to the Assyrians. The year was 841 B.C. Scripture chronology shows exactly twelve years between the death of Ahab and ascent of Jehu to the throne. The Assyrian Eponym List shows twelve years between the battle of Qarqar and the time when Jehu gave tribute to the Assyrian monarch.
Also, according to Assyrian chronology , there were 152 years between the sixth year of Shalmaneser and the time that Sennacherib invaded Jerusalem in 701 B.C. This was Hezekiah’s fourteenth year as recorded in IIKings 18:13;
“Now in the fourteenth year of King Hezekiah did Sennacherib king of Assyria come up against all the fenced cities of Judah, and took them.”
Today we can take extra-biblical evidence which enables us to take our biblical chronology and match it against secular (Astronomers, Astrophysicists, and atheist physicists–scientists), thanks to them. Dating Old Testament peoples and events is no longer an exercise in guesse-work. We have extant proof from extant discoveries that verify and validate the chronology as the Old Testament presents it. Our Old Testament Chronology is FLAWLESS. Not only is it FLAWLESS, it is now validated and/or substantiated by historical EVIDENCE.
Yes Aaron, you are right. Earth is much older that 10,000 years and positively older than 6,000 years. The chronology is flawless back to the time of the Noahac Flood. Beyond that we have no secular dates or events we can scientifically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. All we can say is, from the flood to Adam all history existed in an eternity past. All geneaologies from Adam to the flood listed only outstanding people. will you or myself be mentioned in the secular or the scriptural books of history?
You make excellent points, but even though the times prior to the Noahac flood were accounted generationally rather than chronologically, I thought it did account for at least one geneology line intact between Adam and Noah. I guess it has been a while since I opened Genesis.
Aaron, my point was the chronology of the old testament can be scientificly proven from the birth of Jesus back to the flood. Even so, Leviticus has no Chronology. Chronology is an important and vital apologetic for the historical accuracy of the Old Teatament, but only back to the Noahac flood.
Bible generational or geneological records, obviously, skip names as other geneologies sometimes do. The numbers reached through through those bible geneologies can’t safely add up to the ages of the people listed to get the number of years in Old Testament history. The number could be far too small. Most Jewish scholars agree that the number of generations not accounted for could be as many as a thousand or more.
For example: If we add up the ages of men listed in the geneological list from Adam to Noah in the Samaritan version of the OT there is a span of 1,307 years from Adam to the flood. The Masoretic text, Hebrew OT, puts the number at 1656, the Septuagent shows 2,242 years. Which version is correect? No one knows. Could there be gaps in the geneological records found in Genesis 5 and 7? These lists appear to be selections of important or outstanding people only.
There are possibilly thousands of generations not named in the Bible geneologies. One thing is certian:Genesis 5:1 “This is the book of the geneology of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.” Niether Cain nor Able are mentioned in the geneologies of Adam. Adams geneology begins with Seth.
However, Cain does have a geneological record in Genesis 4:16-24. he just is not included in the geneology of Adam. There is the omission of Enoch, Irad, Mehujael, Methusael, Lamech, Jabal, Jubal, Tubal-Cain, and Naamah.
All the generations are accounted for from the generations of Adam—– NOT EVE. Possibilly thousands. Interesting study and thanks for your study.
Very intriguing, indeed.
If you were going to answer the question about getting all those animals onto the ark from all over the world what would you say?
Yahoo news has a ark building story with alot of skeptical post.
also interested in your religious background.
#1. A new person showing up really has no place to demand answers from others, especially without providing your own answers to the same in advance. It is obvious that you’re attempting to bait others into divulging their views so you can post a rehearsed attack on them. You need to post your views on the subject, so they’re up for the same “scrutiny” that you have in store, first.
#2. Atheist wanna-be’s, flaming about “cretins and their fairy sky-daddy” does not constitute “alot of skeptical post”. If you want the best take currently available on the Noahac flood & the famous ark, talk to an accredited theologian (I.e. someone holding a Doctorate in Christian Theology from a prominent religious school such as Notre Dame).
#3. There are no atheists in battlefield fox-holes, crashing airplanes or sinking ships.
A few points about the Ark:
1. The design has actually been proven to be a very stable one and this has been vetted through naval architects many times. The dimensions have a length-width ratio of 6:1, which is near optimal for a vessel’s pitch & roll stability.
2. As proven by many archaeologists, the dimensions, capacity and overall design concept were very much within the capabilities of the ancient civilization tech deemed available at the time. It was a very simple design, simpler than a 14th century Spanish caravel, in fact.
3. It was not a ship, it was never designed to have propulsion (including sail), steering or any other means of control; it did not need it because:
4. It only needed to stay afloat for just shy of 1.5 months and it was designed to do nothing more than bob in the water for the duration of the Flood.
5. While it was reported (by whomever recorded it) to have carried two of every animal species or a small herd if they were good (non-hostile) animals, it more likely carried that much of all the various animals from the geographic region where Noah lived, or the regions that Noah’s civilization knew about. Not until well after the coming of Christ, did anyone actually know how big the entire world really was and it would have been impossible for the scribe to know because the means to traverse the entire world were not developed until the 15th century, when sailing ships got large enough to carry rations to cross the two major oceans. So from the perspective of the scribe, what they got was the entirety of the world’s species because they had no means of knowing about other parts of the world not yet discovered by their civilization. This leads to the next point:
6. The scribe claimed that the flood covered the entire world, but it would have been impossible to know that for the same reason above. Said scribes could see a flood that was consuming their entire civilization and all the lands known about by it From their perspective, it did cover the world. Besides that, 40 days of straight, heavy rain would not be enough to cover the entire surface of the world, so once again, one has to put it into the perspective of the scribes that recorded it.
Yes, what the Bible says is true, but all too many people (Jewish, Christian and otherwise) take it way to literally and straight forward. Many supposedly “un-Christian” ideals (such as “evilution”) can quite easily coexist within the context of Biblical scripture if viewed through the right lens. This is not that hard.
Do you assume that the pre-flood world was the same as the post-flood world? It would appear that you do. Why do you make that assumption?
I think that the pre-flood world was very, very different from the post-flood world. I think that it the Earth was one contiguous land mass, similar to the concept of Pangaea, but as a small, solid sphere. I think that the water currently in the oceans was a massive water vapor atmosphere in the pre-flood world. Every breath people took kept them hydrated, and they were more protected from the sun’s harmful rays. That’s part of the reason why people lived so long (multiple hundreds of years).
You’ve seen the flash-flooding that can happen from even 1 hour of heavy rain. Now imagine 960 hours (40 days) of continuous rain. Yes, that event covered the entire surface of the pre-flood world with water.
And as the earth started to absorb that water, the earth expanded. Land masses split from each other and drifted apart. Huge chasms were created, into which huge quantities of water flowed. As the Earth expanded and cracked, and expanded some more, the water levels receeded and dry land emerged. The world as we know it today is vastly different from the world before the flood.
Many supposedly “un-Christian” ideals (such as “evilution”) can quite easily coexist within the context of Biblical scripture if viewed through the right lens. This is not that hard.
Please see: Evolution vs. the Biblical Account
The link you posted is not functioning properly. I can mouse over it, but it turns into a text selection cursor, rather than a link selector. It also does not show a URL in the bottom bar to indicate a link to anything. Also, clicking does no activity.
As a side note, I find it an intriguing notion that Earth’s atmosphere was much denser with humidity in the distant past than today. The additional oxygen would also explain larger size insects such as often discussed in palientology (sp?). However, I do have to ask what other sort of phenomenon could have caused the atmosphere’s composition to change so dramatically like that? Note that there had to be moisture already in the ground, as by biblical account, there were trees and other plant life that absorbs ground moisture for hydration all the way back to the Garden of Eden. Further, there had to be more than just a great flood to cause Earth to expand in size/volume by any substantial amount. The gravity force created by a smaller, lower mass planet could not hold a dense, moisture-rich atmosphere to its surface. Something else had to play a factor.
For a lot of things, a super-humid atmosphere makes sense as a viable explanation, but it also makes for many complications and difficulties such that it alone does not suffice as explanation. There has to be more.
Thanks for the heads-up about the link. It should be fixed now.
One thing to note is that the Biblical account does not hold a specific, measurable timeline, and as Harvey G pointed out, there are a lot of generations that are not recorded most likely due to them not being noteworthy. While it does record the Geneology of Adam to Jesus, that geneology is not necessarily a direct chain, nor is it continuous and unbroken.
That said, the 13 billion years age of the universe is right out, as plant and animal development has been far too fast for that to happen. Just since Christ’s time (a mere 2000 years), the average human has grown in size by a substantial amount. I’d be willing to bet that the Goliath was likely comparable in size to an above-average American man. (about 6’2″+ in height)
While it does record the Geneology of Adam to Jesus, that geneology is not necessarily a direct chain, nor is it continuous and unbroken.
Continuous or not, each of the people named in that geneology was a real person who walked the face of planet Earth.
I’d be willing to bet that the Goliath was likely comparable in size to an above-average American man. (about 6’2″+ in height)
My first-born son is on track to be 6’7″ to 6’10”. I personally know someone who is over 7 feet tall.
I don’t know how tall Goliath was, but I seem to remember one estimate that he may have been 9 feet tall. But he clearly was far outside the normal distribution… an outlier of considerable note. But I agree with you that the average height today is far taller than the average height of even just a few hundred years ago. And the variation in human population today is vast. Most dentists have seen a wide variety of teeth, all in the homo sapien species. Some of the “missing link” frauds used teeth from Gibbons and pigs.
It looks like the Right and Left agree: green-jobs stimulus is a waste of money and time.
Continental Drift is still occurring and the European continent and North American continent are a tiny bit farther apart today than they were last year at this same time. However, Tectonic Plate Shift is due to the internal thermal expansion of the earth that created the seven continents from one. Europe and others say there are only six considering N. & S. America as only one. If one considers the speed of continental drift it would require several billions of years to create the distance of seperation between Europe and North America.
knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts, 4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth compacted out of water and amidst water, by the word of God; 6 by which means the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished “
For this they willingly are ignorant of…
Namely, what follows; for as these men were such as had professed Christianity, and had the advantage of revelation, and had the opportunity of reading the Scriptures, they might have known that the heavens and the earth were from the beginning; and that they were made by the word of God; and that the earth was originally in such a position and situation as to be overflowed with a flood, and that it did perish by a general inundation; and that the present heavens and earth are kept and reserved for a general burning; and it might be discerned in nature, that there are preparations making for an universal conflagration; but all this they chose not to know, and affected ignorance of: particularly
that by the word of God the heavens were of old:
not only in the times of Noah, but “from the beginning”; as the Ethiopic version reads, and which agrees with the account in (Genesis 1:1) ; by “the heavens” may be meant both the third heaven, and the starry heavens, and the airy heavens, with all their created inhabitants; and especially the latter, since these were concerned in, and affected with the general deluge; and these were in the beginning of time, out of nothing brought into being, and so were not eternal, and might be destroyed again, or at least undergo a change, even though they were of old, and of long duration: for it was “by the word of God” that they at first existed, and were so long preserved in being; either by the commanding word of God, by his powerful voice, his almighty fiat, who said, Let it be done, and it was done, and who commanded beings to rise up out of nothing, and they did, and stood fast; and so the Arabic version renders it, “by the command of God”; or by his eternal Logos, the essential Word of God, the second Person in the Trinity, who is often in Scripture called the Word, and the Word of God, and, as some think, by the Apostle Peter, (1 Peter 1:23) , and certain it is that the creation of all things is frequently ascribed to him; see (John 1:16) (Hebrews 1:2,10) (11:3) ; wherefore by the same Word they might be dissolved, and made to pass away, as they will:
and the earth standing out of the water and in the water;
that is, “by the Word of God”; for this phrase, in the original text, is placed after this clause, and last of all; and refers not only to the being of the heavens of old, but to the rise, standing, and subsistence of the earth, which is here particularly described for the sake of the deluge, the apostle afterwards mentions: and it is said to be “standing out of the water”, or “consisting out of it”; it consists of it as a part; the globe of the earth is terraqueous, partly land and partly water; and even the dry land itself has its rise and spring out of water; the first matter that was created is called the deep, and waters in which darkness was, and upon which the Spirit of God moved, (Genesis 1:2) ; agreeably to which Thales the Milesian asserted F20, that water was the principle of all things; and the Ethiopic version here renders the words thus, “and the Word of God created also the earth out of water, and confirmed it”: the account the Jews give of the first formation of the world is this F21;
“at first the world was (Mymb Mym) , “water in water”; what is the sense (of that passage (Genesis 1:2) ;) “and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters?” he returned, and made it snow; he casteth forth his ice like morsels, (Psalms 147:17) ; he returned and made it earth; “for to the snow he saith, Be thou earth”, (Job 37:6) , and the earth stood upon the waters; “to him that stretched out the earth above the waters”, (Psalms 136:6) ;”
however, certain it is, that the earth was first covered with water, when at the word, and by the command of God, the waters fled and hasted away, and were gathered into one place, and the dry land rose up and appeared; and then it was that it “stood out of the water”; see (Genesis 1:9,10) (Psalms 104:6,7) ; moreover, the earth consists, or is kept and held together by water; there is a general humidity or moisture that runs through it, by which it is compacted together, or otherwise it would resolve into dust, and by which it is fit for the production, increase, and preservation of vegetables and other things, which it otherwise would not be: and it is also said to stand “in the water”, or by the water; upon it, according to (Psalms 24:2) ; or rather in the midst of it, there being waters above the firmament or expanse; in the airy heavens, in the clouds all around the earth, called the windows of heaven; and water below the firmament or expanse, in the earth itself; besides the great sea, a large body of waters is in the midst of the earth, in the very bowels of it, which feed rivers, and form springs, fountains and wells, called “the fountains of the great deep”, (Genesis 7:11) ; and in this position and situation was the earth of old, and so was prepared in nature for a general deluge, and yet was preserved firm and stable by the word of God, for a long series of time; so the Arabic version renders it, “and the earth out of the water, and in the water, stood stable, by the command of God”; but when it was his pleasure, he brought the flood on the world of the ungodly, of which an account follows. John Gills Exposition of the entire bible.
“And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.” 1st Samuel 17:4
If we take a cubit to be 21 inches, Goliath would be 10 ½ feet tall + a span(?). Now we go back before the flood:
1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
It was at that point in eternity past that God determined He would destroy all humanity and animal life in Noah’s world except for Noah and family and the animals he took aboard the ark. ****NOTE**** “There were giants on the earth IN THOSE DAYS, and ALSO AFTERWARDS.” Oviously God didn’t destroy all the giants. In fact God didn’t destroy all life on earth except that which was with Noah on the ark. Go to Genesis 3:14-15:
“14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
Note the last verse (15). I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your (serpent’s) seed and her Seed (spelled w/capital S). Seed with a capital S is in reference to someone holy, IE the Messiah, the Christ. This is the first prophecy pertaining to our Saviour. “He (Christ) shall bruise your (serpents) head, and you (serpent) shall bruise His (Christ’s) heel.”
Cain was the seed of the serpent, Abel was actually the seed of Adam but Abel died having no children and therefore no generational/genealogical record. And Women do not have seed(s) they have eggs. Men have seed(s). Remember the genealogy of Jesus? His genealogy is traced from Joseph (husband of Mary) back through Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:23-38. The point is just this. If God had destroyed the seed of the serpent, Cain, then there would be nothing for God to put enmity between. There of necessity has to be two beings, two seedlines in order there cam be enmity between them. Now we know why the genealogy of Adam contains no reference to Cain and Abel. Cain was not the son of Adam, but he was the son of Eve and the serpent. In a nutshell, God destroyed the world as Noah knew of it. The flood was local, it happened only in the world of Noah and was not a world wide event. Had it been world wide the Messiah, the Christ, would not have come as prophesied
The cubits used to measure Goliath’s height may not have been the ~21″ Egyptian Cubit. Given it was in Israel, it was more likely the Ancient Israeli cubit (~16.85″) or the Roman cubit (~17.5″).
-Ancient Israeli Cubits put Goliath’s height at ~101″; 8’5″+ a span.
-Roman Cubits put his height at 8’9″+ a span.
-A span was measured in several different ways but in David’s time, it was most likely just half a cubit.
-That would make Goliath’s height ~9’2″ (Israeli) or ~9’7″ (Roman)
A 9’2″ – 9’7″ Goliath is a much more reasonable estimate, given the current record for World’s Tallest Man in (non-Biblical) History is Robert Wadlow, who measured 8’11” at his death in 1940.
Forgot to post links.
Span measurement (can also be seen in the above link):
Right on Aaron. international weights and measures even today are not all the same. That is the reason I said “IF” we take the cubit to be 21 inches, that is to say to the extreme limit, Goliath would be that tall. All that can be known for certain, according to scripture, is that he (Goliath) was indeed a giant. I wouldn’t want to arm wrestle him :).
The Hebrew, like the Egyptians and Babylonians, had two cubits, the common and apparently older cubit (Deut. 3:11; II Chron. 3:3) and a cubit that was a handbreadth longer (Ezek. 40:5; 43:14). The common Hebrew cubit was 17.72 inches and the long cubit was 20.67 inches, apparently the same as the Egyptian royal cubit. Evidence of these mesurements found in measuring sticks recovered from tombs.
Span (Heb. zereth), the width from the end of the thumb to that of the little finger, when these were extended. This measure was in use among the Hebrews in very early times (Ex. 28:16, see also 39:9; and 1 Sam. 17:4). It was about nine inches. The New Ungers Bible Dictionary pp 841-42
World’s oldest living tree predates the Bishop Ussher’s, Lightfoot’s, and several other’s calculation using the genealogical records found in the bible to determine the earth to be 4004 years old up to the birth of Jesus Christ. Plus 2011= 60015 years today. I had read about this about two years ago, then I came across it again today.
The world’s oldest living tree (so far found) predates Adam, of the bible, by about 3500 years. I first read this article in the National Geographics.
One other note is that if Europe considers N & S America to be one continent, then Eurpoe and Asia necessarily has to be considered as one continent. Technically, Europe, Asia & Africa could all be considered one landmass as all three are connected by land.
Then if you make the continents that big, you would have to revoke Australia’s status as a continent and reclassify it as a really large island. That leaves us with only three continents EurAfrAsia, Antartica & NorSoAmerica. But wait, there’s more! Because Antartica’s actual landmass is not much larger than Australia’s, you also have to reclassify it as just a really big island, too. That leaves us with two ginormous continents and two really big islands.
What is the alternative? Taking into consideration that Europe is full of dumbasses. Evidence to support this? Greece, Spain, Italy & Ireland’s utter failure to keep their financial houses in order.
It’s a good thing the continents do not expand as all the nations’ debts have expanded because there wouldn’t be any room left for oceans by now. Tell me something, who ultimately winds up with all the money that is owed by all the nations? They all seem to be bankrupt and owe someone or some thing. One thing is certain, none of it, money that is, is headed my way.
Yesterday I went to check out a new car and the prices. The prices jogged my “ancient” memory back to when I was about 12-or thirteen years old, Iwas looking at a 1948 cheverolet that cost almost $2900. I went h home yesterday without even driving one of the new cars. LOL!!!!
If the Noahac flood did actually destroy the entire world, how did a tree survive to all the way before Adam?
I don’t know how long trees that are not a type of cypress can stand being submerged in water and not die. Another thing about that old tree is the people who are studying it say the climate was much warmer 10,000 years ago than it is today. So much for Al Gore’s take on global warming and his prophecy of gloom and doom for the planet.
Also, think about this. Unless all the mountain ranges were created AFTER the great flood and it was world wide that would mean the flood waters were more than 29,035 feet deep above sea level, simply because that is the elevation of Mt. Everest. The flood supposedly covered the entire earth which means even the top of Everest. Now where do you suppose all that water drained off to? all the rivers and oceans were already under almost six (6) miles of water. The flood was local.
2nd Peter 3:5 says ” For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth compacted out of water ————–.”
Meaning the earth was held together by the water and not torn apart by it, meaning a flood of water did not tear a once single land mass apart and thereby create seven continents.
Take a stroll along the beach and notice that not many feet from the edge of the water the sand is loose and it is hard to jog in, almost lke trying to run in water itself the sand is so loose you bog down in it. Now walk where the waves wash ashore and wet the sand. notice how the sand is compacted and firm. Even hundreds of miles from the oceans during droughts many home and other building foundations are ruined because the grond has lost its compaction due to the loss of ground moister.
OH! WAIT! LOL!!!!
Genesis 8:4 “Then the ark rested in the seventh month, the seventeenth day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat.”
The mountains were created before the flood. More about Ararat.
I don’t know if it was local, I suspect wider than local. The reason for that is the rain was for 40 days straight and the flood was great enough that it covered the surface as far as the eye could see, meaning to the horizon in all directions from the Ark’s top deck. Further, Mount Ararat is located about 200 miles inland from the Black Sea, ~240 from the Caspian, and ~450 from the Mediterranean Sea. Of course, this assumes that the natural coastlines of those three seas have not substantially changed in the last several thousand years. That means the flood had to be expansive enough to allow the Ark to drift from one of those coasts. I suppose it could have been built inland, but ancient cities were almost universally coastal or riverside, so one would naturally assume that such a large construct would be close to a coast line.
What’s more is that in 40 days, with a 1/2 mph wind-assisted drift (not fast even for a drift) in one direction, the Ark could have covered as much as 480 miles in distance from its original location. Supposedly, Noah was living in the area close to post-flood Egypt. This puts the Ark’s possible site of construction right at the edge of its drift range. If Noah was on the Ark for as long as a year, then the drift range could potentially have been much greater. However, without the rain storms to provide the winds that almost always accompany them, there is no telling how much wind there would have been to cause farther drifting.
With all that in mind, the flood had to cover a substantially wide area, though it was not “necessarily” a global flood. Then again, to destroy all human life at the time, one would not have to cover the world wit anywhere near 6 miles of water, so even a global flood would not have to leave every mountain peak under water. A global flood would only have to cover the maximum elevation of any lands that could have supported human life at the highest tech level of civilization that existed at the time of its occurrence.
Actually ancient traditions point to at least six other landing sites, other than in Turkey. Mt Ararat in Turkey is usually seized on because it is the highest mountain (16,946 feet) in the Ararat mountain range in the Near East. Just like there is more than one site that has been considered to be the Mt Sinai where Moses recieved the Law. Just the same as here in this state there is a small town called Athens after the city of Athens in Greece and also an Odessa in this state after another city named Odessa that is extremely older.
One other thing that is floated about (pun intended :) ) is that some modern day geologists believe the area Noah lived in “MAY” have actually sank due to natural phenomena (earthquake) and the sea water rushed in just as it begin to rain for forty days and nights. As for me, I believe there was in fact a great flood somewhere (locally) and Noah and family survived it.
Why Isn’t Earth Hot as an Oven?
Obviously there are forces at work that scientists can only theorize. Theories they will have to adjust as they gain more understanding of the situation. Maybe they should begin with the oldest written documents in the world such as:
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, God who, “Upholds all things by the word of His power.” Documented in the Holy Bible (genesis 1:1, hebrews 1:3).
I mean it’s like someone who can create an entire universe should also be in control of it in order all the suns (stars) and planets do not wobble around and crash into each other. So that the earth absorbs and radiates just the proper amount of heat so it hasn’t over heated or over cooled in the last few billion years which the same scientists say the earth has existed. Now all of a sudden, last few years, I suppose some of the politicians figure it is time for them to take control of nature and run it the way they see fit.
I mean it seems as if they don’t believe that God, who created all this stuff and even created a flood that covered the world’s highest mountains, is in control of His creation(s) anymore. I mean, just look, He even disposed of all that water in short order too. Scientists who are supposed to figure out how stuff works should be concentrating on politicians and try to figure out what makes them tick.
Wishing them good luck with that too. Got to go and pick up my new car today, Aaron. I broke down ;( .
CERN: “Climate models will need to be substantially revised”
RP: your link will not work for me. I did a “live search” CERN.
Most likely not the same as the link you created. Went on to another link to/for Dr. Kirby. Very interesting indeed.
“Jasper Kirkby is a superb scientist, but he has been a lousy politician. In 1998, anticipating he’d be leading a path-breaking experiment into the sun’s role in global warming, he made the mistake of stating that the sun and cosmic rays “will probably be able to account for somewhere between a half and the whole of the increase in the Earth’s temperature that we have seen in the last century.” Global warming, he theorized, may be part of a natural cycle in the Earth’s temperature.
Dr. Kirkby was immediately condemned by climate scientists for minimizing the role of human beings in global warming. Stories in the media disparaged Dr. Kirkby by citing scientists who feared oil-industry lobbyists would use his statements to discredit the greenhouse effect. And the funding approval for Dr. Kirkby’s path-breaking experiment — seemingly a sure thing when he first announced his proposal– was put on ice.
Dr. Kirkby was stunned, and not just because the experiment he was about to run had support within his scientific institute, and was widely expected to have profound significance. Dr. Kirkby was also stunned because his institute is CERN, and science performed at CERN had never before seemed so vulnerable to whims of government funders.
CERN is no fringe laboratory pursuing crackpot theories at some remote backwater. CERN, based in Geneva, is the European Organization for Nuclear Research, a 50-yearold institution, originally founded by 12 countries and now counting 20 country-members. It services 6,500 particle physicists — half of the world’s total — in 500 institutes and universities around the world. It is building the $2.4-billion Large Hadron Collider, the world’s most powerful particle accelerator. And it is home to Jasper Kirkby’s long-languished CLOUD project, among the most significant scientific experiments to be proposed in our time. Finally, almost a decade after Dr. Kirkby’s proposal first saw the light of day, the funding is in place and the work has begun in earnest.”
There is more.
Thanks for the heads up about the dead link. It should be fixed now. Chalk up a win for Heliocentric Climate Change (HCC) over Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW).
So there was this light earthquake in Washington DCa few days ago. One wonders if the lefties are blaming that on AGW, too.
Also, it turns out that Washington DC sits close to a previously undiscovered fault line that the Obama Administration has named “Bush’s Fault.”
My personal opinion is that the quake wasn’t strong enough. In that quake was the potential to swallow up most of the nation’s crotch-rot and leave our country with a whole bunch less Parasi–I mean “politicians” and lawyers running around.
The earthquake near the nation’s capital this week prompted speculation about fault lines in the Washington DC area. This has actually been a hot topic for the White House, as it desperately searches for ways to blame the economic failures of Barack Obama on anyone but Barack Obama. The President and his team have repeatedly blamed “bad luck,” corporate jet owners, the Tea Party, and the weather for the malaise and high unemployment that have become hallmarks of his term in office. Two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial cartoonist Michael Ramirez of Investors Business Daily puts the two stories into his singularly unique perspective:
“We’ve been driving through a storm,” Obama said. “We had to try to keep this boat afloat through something that we haven’t seen in our lifetimes…”
Continents do not drift, but entire tetonic plates which contain continents are pushed further apart.
“Flipped from Head to Toe: 100 Years of Continental Drift Theory
ScienceDaily (Jan. 4, 2012) — Exactly 100 years ago, on 6 January 1912, Alfred Wegener presented his theory of continental drift to the public for the first time. At a meeting of the Geological Association in Frankfurt’s Senckenberg Museum, he revealed his thoughts on the supercontinent Pangaea, which broke apart and whose individual parts now drift across Earth as today’s continents. In 1915, he published his book “The Origin of Continents and Oceans.” Its third edition in 1922 was translated into the languages of the world and today is considered the foundation stone of plate tectonics.
Earth & Climate
•Elastic-rebound theory of earthquakes
Wegener’s genius idea did not only find friends, because it had the main disadvantage that it lacked the engine to break apart the supercontinent and move huge continental masses over Earth’s surface. Indeed, only by the seismology of the 1950s and through scientific drilling in the oceans in the 1960s, the foundation for plate tectonics was laid — at the same time, however, Wegener’s groundbreaking theory was turned upside down.
Earthquakes are not only terrible natural disasters, they also offer a view inside Earth. It was the geophysicists Wadati and Benioff, who in 1954 independently discovered the systematic arrangement of earthquakes in the places which we now know as plate boundaries. “More than 90% of the global seismic energy is released at the plate boundaries,” says Professor Michael Weber, head seismologist at the German Research Centre for Geosciences GFZ. “We use these earthquakes for tomographic screening of the Earth.” With modern methods of scientific seismology it is even possible to reconstruct how quickly the continents moved. The speed record is held by India, which started to make its way from East Gondwana to Eurasia about 140 million years ago — at a speed of 20 centimeters per year.
Drilling into the ocean floor
The real breakthrough, however, came only when those findings were combined with the research results from the great ocean drilling programs of the sixties. Previously, using magnetic measurements of the ocean floor and topography of the seabed the mid-ocean ridges had been discovered, as well as a magnetic polarization of the rocks in parallel strips either side of mid-ocean ridges. Now, the obtained cores showed: No piece of the drilled ocean floor was older than 200 million years, and therefore decidedly younger than Wegener had assumed. Continental rocks, in contrast, can achieve an age of more than four billion years. Secondly, it could be shown that the ocean floor is very young in the immediate vicinity of the mid-ocean ridges. With increasing distance from these undersea mountains, the rocks exhibit an increase in age. Thirdly, the ocean floors below the top layer of sediment are entirely of magmatic origin. “These results could in fact only allow one interpretation. From the interior of the Earth, hot, liquid rock rises to these ridges and pushes the ocean floor off to the side”, explains Dr. Ulrich Harms, who at the GFZ directs the “Centre for Scientific Drilling.” “Not the continents drift, but entire tectonic plates, which consist of continents , ocean floors, and parts of the upper mantle.”
Ascending rocks and the engine of plate tectonics
All these findings in the second half of the sixties put Wegener’s ingenious discoveries into a correct context, and also flipped his theory from the head to its feet: not only were his assumptions as to the age of oceans and continents completely reversed, the idea that the continents plow the ocean turns around so that continents and oceans move together as a common upper part of the lithospheric plates. The continents float on top as the lightest rocks, so to speak.
These tectonic plates move, collide, grind past each other or drift apart. All these processes are associated with earthquakes, which can thus be explained as part of the overall process. But what forces the heavy rock inside Earth to rise? The enormous heat inside Earth’s core and mantle comes in one part from the formation of Earth, in another from the radioactive decay of elements in the mantle. The heated rock rises and induces the movement expressed on the surface as a displacement of the plates.
The quiet revolution in the theory of tectonics
The classical concept of tectonics as a quasi mechanical process of the movement and collision of rigid plates is now itself in disarray. “Recent findings show plate tectonics as a self-regulating system of interactions, in which all the subsystems of the planet earth are involved”, explains Professor Onno Oncken. The Director of the Department “Geodynamics” at GFZ notes: “It is not a mechanical system, but rather complex feedback processes.” The climate as example: high-altitude mountains have a decisive influence on the climate, of course. But that the climate in turn controls the tectonics, is a new discovery: the Andes, for example, are caused by the collision of the Nazca plate with South America. The humid climate of the South Andes leads to the erosion of material that ends up as sediment in the Pacific. The Nazca plate approaching from the west deposits this rock on the South American crust. The arid climate of the Northern and Central Andes, however, gives rise to no sediment, therefore the Nazca plate rasps off the continental crust here. The thus created great increase in friction in turn transmits a force that causes the Andean plateau to gain height and width. This in turn enhances the rain shadow on the west side of the Andes and additionally reduces erosion.
The classical notion of folded mountains as a result of a collision also had to be revised: “The Andes, for example, in their present form, exist for about 45 million years, the subduction of the Nazca plate beneath South America has been going on since the Paleozoic, so hundreds of millions of years longer,” says Onno Oncken. Similarly, the interplay between the hot, rising rock masses and Earth’s crust is much more complex than originally thought. When a hot rock bubble rises, the poorly heat-conductive lithosphere acts as a boundary layer to the surface like a blanket, which in turn increases the temperature further below. This heat buildup can eventually soften whole continents like a welding torch until they dissolve, as it happened around 140 to 130 million years ago, when Gondwana fell apart first in the East, then in the West.
At that time Africa also separated from South America, but it was exactly the contours of these two continents that sparked Wegener’s idea. Professor Oncken: “Wegener’s approach was the starting point, the plate tectonics of the previous century was the revolution in geoscientific perception. Today we see an equally thorough, quiet revolution in the theory of plate tectonics, because we understand our planet increasingly as a complete system.”
Two more scientists change sides in the AGW debate
From the Book of Gaia, chapter two
Green ‘drivel’ exposed
The godfather of global warming lowers the boom on climate change hysteria
In the genealogy of Noah’s son Shem, we see the name Peleg and along with it a brief note that “in his time the earth was divided”. Could this be when
Pangea” began to break up into seven continents?
Two sons were born to Eber:
One was named Peleg,[a] because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.
New International Version (NIV)
Two sons were born to Eber:
One was named Peleg,[a] because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan.
New International Version (NIV)
I do believe that the pre-flood world was very different from the post-flood world and that the flood waters that covered the earth receeded when the earth expanded and cracked at the surface, creating chasms for the water to fill. I believe tectonic shift is a post-flood phenomenon, and it is interesting that Genesis 10:25 speaks of “in his time the earth was divided”.
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