OK, Marxists, Now It’s Your Turn…

On May 1st (May Day), show us how many people you can get to come out in  a massive grassroots show of support for your Socialist agenda.

Show us grassroots support in 2,049 cities around the USA, many with multiple thousands of people in attendance.

tea-parties-april-15-2009

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25 Responses to OK, Marxists, Now It’s Your Turn…

  1. Frin says:

    Mr Pill,

    This is not a grass roots movement. This is a sham uprising agitated by FreedomWorks, a conservative group led by Dick Armey; dontGO, a tech-savvy free-market action group that evolved out of last year’s debate about domestic drilling for oil; and Americans for Prosperity, a conservative advocacy group.

    Nate Silver at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/how-many-attended-tea-parties.html has this to say about attendance at the Tea Parties:

    Below is a VERY long (but far from comprehensive) list of crowd size estimates at today’s Tea Party protests across the country. I’ve tried to take estimates provided by reporters or police officials only, rather than estimates provided by the organizers or attendees themselves, although surely this is an imperfect science. I’ve also tried to avoid taking any data from explicitly partisan (including left-leaning partisan) news sources. Collectively, these reports account for an attendance of 111,899.

    111899 in a country of 303,824,640 (according to CIA world book as at mid 2008) is approx 0.03% of the population. Even if you double the attendance figures for arguments sake then that’s hardly mindblowing numbers – especially for events that have had a months worth of advertising on the Fox Network.

  2. Ryan says:

    Mr. Pill, There was a van load of people at the Inauguration for every person attending these rallies.

    I wonder what the country would be like with you running it. You seem like someone who might be a bit compassionate for those less fortunate. The people at these rallies seem to think that “sharing” is a bad word.

  3. Jonah says:

    Really now. There are probably a few good arguments conservatives you can make about the success of the tea parties, but “massive grassroots show of support” isn’t one of them.

  4. Frin,

    Get real. This is a grass roots movement.

    I am someone who went to the “Texas Tea” party on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives last August, and I went to a Tea Party yesterday that had thousands of people.

    My participation had nothing to do with Dick Armey or David Shuster (who seems to have a teabagging fetish) or Anderson Cooper (who seems to speak from personal experience whan he says, “It’s hard to talk when you’re teabagging.”)

    The people who were there were there because they wanted to be there, not because any paid “community organizer” got them to show up.

    Even the small tea parties had 100+ people (the large ones had several thousand people), and there were over 2,000 tea parties, so the attendance estimate of 111,899 is totally bogus.

    Massive: Tax Day Tea Party USA

  5. And really, if the Tea Parties were no big deal, then it should be easy for those on the far-left (who support the policies of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid) to exceed yesterday’s results with their own grassroots show of support on May Day.

    Now is your time to shine. Show us what you’ve got. Prove to the world that a majority of people in this country are happy with the “CHANGE” that Obama and the other Democrats have brought.

  6. Jonah says:

    Anderson Cooper (who seems to speak from personal experience whan he says, “It’s hard to talk when you’re teabagging.”)

    Haha, get it? ’cause Cooper is gay. (I love middle school!)

    And really, if the Tea Parties were no big deal, then it should be easy for those on the far-left (who support the policies of Obama, Pelosi, and Reid) to exceed yesterdays results with their own grassroots show of support on May Day.

    Is there actually some May Day event that you’re referring to, or did you just make it up? I’m not sure I understand the purpose of a rally in support of the establishment.

    The current attendance estimate is in the 250,000 range. A single anti-war protest in 2003 in New York had about 300,000 people. Obama in Berlin attracted a crowd of 200,000. As Ryan mentioned, inauguration numbers were around 2,000,000. Why would we organize a pointless “woo, status quo!” rally to prove a point when history has already done it for us?

  7. The current attendance estimate is in the 250,000 range.

    That estimate is based on 306 out of 2,049 “Tea Party” protests (15%). And the numbers they used for those 306 were only about 1/3 to at best 1/2 of the actual attendance. That’s true of the one I attended, and others report the same. (I counted 10 heads by 10 heads to get a visual on a “block” of 100 people, and stood on a statue pedestal to estimate the number of such “block” areas that were filled with people. My estimate was 25 blocks, or 2,500 people. The number reported and used in the 250,000 estimate was less than half of that. And how do you estimate the number of people who didn’t attend, but made their support very clear (by honking multiple times and giving “thumbs up” out their windows) as they drove by?

    Read some of the other first-hand accounts here.

    I believe there were well over a million people who turned out yesterday. Don’t be surprised if even more people show up for July 4th Tea Parties.

  8. “woo, status quo!”

    What the governent has been doing since January 20th is not “status quo”… it is multiplying our debt to unconscionable levels, and driving our country (intentionally, I believe) to bankruptcy.

    Americans from all political backgrounds and all 50 states plus Washington, D.C. united in protest to these unconstitutional actions by an out-of-control, tyrannical government. I can’t think of any comparable event in our nation’s history. Can any of you name a day in history when citizens from every state in the United States raised their collective voices in a unified protest of our government?

    I highly recommend this excellent article, written by a lifetime Democrat.

  9. Jonah says:

    And how do you estimate the number of people who didn’t attend, but made their support very clear (by honking multiple times and giving “thumbs up” out their windows) as they drove by?

    Um, you don’t? Estimates are supposed to measure attendance. If you want to measure support, you hold an election. How did that turn out for you guys?

    There are all sorts of problems with trying to estimate the size of a crowd from the inside, even when standing on a pedestal. But sure, let’s pretend you’re right, and that the actual number of people who turned out is on the order of a million. That still leaves much to be desired in comparison with the inauguration: the tea parties took place all over the country (so distance shouldn’t be much of an issue for anyone) and comprised less than 1% of the electorate. Inauguration took place in one location and comprised more than 1% of the electorate.

    I’m not saying that this means Obama has more of a mandate, simply because our crowds turned out larger than yours. Nor do I mean to crap all over your event because it wasn’t as big as it could have been. I’m glad Republicans are embracing grassroots movements. (And regardless of what Frin says, this is grassroots. There may have been vocal supporters in the media, but the hard work happened locally because of organized, committed citizens. You can say the same exact thing about every grassroots campaign that happened on the left, including the one which gave us our current president.)

    I do wish your message could have been a little more coherent—the general theme seemed to be “citizens dissatisfied with what’s happening” rather than “citizens with a better idea”—but public demonstrations are pretty much always a good thing. Plus, maybe next time you folks are in power and we organize against whatever war your next leader throws at us, you’ll think back to times like this and refrain from slinging cries of “treason” just because a group disagrees with the president’s actions.

    But another thing you might experience, as I did in 2003, is that sometimes even a successful protest won’t have any effect on what the government actually does. That’s the nature of democracy: there are only a few events per year when you can affect policy just by showing up, and those events happen at polling places.

  10. Jonah says:

    Can any of you name a day in history when citizens from every state in the United States raised their collective voices in a unified protest of our government?

    Sure. February 15, 2003. And on that day, not only were there anti-war protests in every single state (many of which, like the hundreds of thousands in both New York and San Francisco, dwarfing those form yesterday), but there were similar protests all over the globe in sixty different countries, with total estimates on the order of five to ten million.

  11. Is there actually some May Day event that you’re referring to

    1) Communists like doing protests on May Day. (Especially note the picture/poster with Ché and “Sí Se Puede – The Workers Struggle Has No Borders“). And just in case you need a reminder, “Yes, We Can!” –> “¡Sí se puede!” –> Alinsky Radicals –> Lucifer.

    2) Sounds like numbers this year might be increased by counter-protesters.

  12. Ratings blowout:
    Fox News scores big with tea-party coverage

    Beating CNN, MSNBC, and HLN combined.

  13. Jonah,
    I’d love to see a Google Map with “pushpins” for the locations of the U.S. protests on February 15, 2003. I don’t think it would look anything like the one above.

    Why aren’t the anti-war protestors still protesting? Why is the war OK for them when Obama is acting as President? Could it be that the protests weren’t really about the war? Could it be that they were really Communist rallies in disguise? Seriously, if it was really about protesting the war, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are still ongoing, why aren’t the protestors still protesting?

    Anti-war rallies also were planned Saturday in U.S. cities including Chicago, Philadelphia, Miami and Seattle. Protesters in Detroit chanted “Give peace a chance.”

    Doesn’t sound like all 50 states to me, but maybe that was just Fox News bias.

    “We need to leave Iraq alone,” said rally organizer Kris Hamel of the Michigan Emergency Committee Against the War on Iraq.

    Is it still an “Emergency”, Kris Hamel?

  14. If you want to measure support, you hold an election. How did that turn out for you guys?

    How honest was the election?

    Were fraudulent votes cast?

    Were non-citizens allowed to vote?

    Were millions of dollars of illegal campaign contributions allowed to go untracked because credit card checks were removed?

    Was there illegal activity between political campaigns and ACORN?

    I hope you support election reforms to ensure our elections are kept honest, and that only living U.S. citizens are allowed to vote, one time, with positive I.D. check.

    I believe Iraq’s elections, with the inked fingers, were more honest than our elections.

  15. …out for the night…

  16. Jonah says:

    I’d love to see a Google Map with “pushpins” for the locations of the U.S. protests on February 15, 2003.

    Yeah, that would’ve been sweet. It’s too bad Google didn’t support that feature back then.

    But you’re right, it probably would have looked very different. These gatherings were concentrated in larger cities much more than small ones (for obvious demographic reasons). That’s why there were about 1/3 as many locations. Not sure I see the point though, since the total attendance was much larger. Am I missing something?

    Why aren’t the anti-war protestors still protesting?

    They are. I still pass by peace rallies all the time. Sure, you won’t see a large scale one quite like those from 2003, because back then was the best possible time to do it: we hadn’t actually gone to war yet, so it was by far the easiest moment to reverse what would later be seen as a huge mistake. But big rallies continued to happen after the war started. It doesn’t really make sense to do a large one now, because the administration is moving to stop the war. Protests are supposed to effect policies, not situations, right? Were you guys protesting the recession, or Obama’s actions towards it?

    You know, I meant it when I said

    Plus, maybe next time you folks are in power and we organize against whatever war your next leader throws at us, you’ll think back to times like this and refrain from slinging cries of “treason” just because a group disagrees with the president’s actions.

    So I find it more than a little shocking to see you, less than 24 hours after getting your protest-cherry popped, throw a charge like

    Could it be that they were really Communist rallies in disguise?

    Really, Red, get a grip. This is what you do whenever you don’t feel like rebutting someone (cf: your post on gay rights from a few months ago). You pretend that they don’t actually want what they say they want, and it’s actually part of some big plot for another thing.

    Screw that. I give you the respect of treating your beliefs for what they are. I would appreciate it if you afforded me the same.

  17. Jonah says:

    How honest was the election?

    Hard to say, but given that the results were almost exactly what the polls predicted, I’d say pretty honest. If McCain had really won, don’t you think we would have seen some opinion polling suggesting that this would have happened?

  18. Frin says:

    Mr Pill,

    As I said, even if you double the attendance figures for arguments sake, its hardly a massive protest. Would you really want your politicians making decisions based on appeasing around 0.06% of the population?

    Jonah, before I wrote that I thought its was sham movement, I did consider why I believed it is different from, say, Obama’s campaign. To me it smelled more like a viral advertising campaign rather than a real movement started by the people. I agree that it relied on hardworking regular citizens to organise that the bottom level, however the lack of a cohesive message implies that the top level PR machine were just trying to agitate enough people with varying dissatisfactions with the government to get out and protest. I think I said it in another thread here, but is this about tax cuts (?), the stimulus, Obama being a socialist, Obama being a facist, white supremacy, birthers?

    Playboy ( !! ) had an interesting article on this – which talked about how “astroturf” movements a tool used by the Russian government to control the political landscape. Mr Pill, are you becoming an unwitting pawn of the communists ?? :-)

    And as for naming a day in history when citizens from every state raised their voice against the government – there are a couple of obvious ones that outshine the Tea Parties:
    15 November 1969 – Moratorium to End the War in Vietnam, approximately 2 million across the US, and more across the globe.
    15 February 2003 – Iraq War protest – estimates state about 150 cities country wide had protests, including over 300,000 in NYC alone. Let alone the close to 3 million (look it up in the Guiness book of Records) that protested in Rome, making it the largest anti-war protest ever.

  19. Frin says:

    Oh, and how about the Immigrants Rights March in May 2006 – nationwide with attendance certainly outstripping that of the Tea Parties. 300,000 in Chicago alone (must have some good community organizers there :-) and 400,000 in LA.

  20. YouShouldTakeAChillPill says:

    What the governent has been doing since January 20th is not “status quo”… it is multiplying our debt to unconscionable levels, and driving our country (intentionally, I believe) to bankruptcy.

    Since January 20th? Review your history Pill for some good example of debt multiplying: Bush II, 2x ; Reagan/Bush, 4x.

  21. Jonah,
    I respect you and what you write.

    Search my blog and see if I ever slung cries of “treason” just because a group disagreed with the President Bush’s actions. I didn’t. And I disagreed with President Bush’s actions myself at times.

  22. Frin,

    how about the Immigrants Rights March in May 2006

    May Day, 2006. I already covered that here.

  23. YouShouldTakeAChillPill,

    Try taking a look at debt #’s from a different perspective… instead of focusing on which party controlled the Executive Branch, take a look at which party controlled the Legislative Branch.

  24. I’ll be offline for the weekend, and possibly for a while after that.

  25. Jonah says:

    I respect you and what you write.

    Glad to hear it. Please have the decency, then, to acknowledge the sincerity of my beliefs. Because this habit of dismissing all of the left’s values as a communist cover-up is more than a little dehumanizing, and it’s getting old fast.

    I’m not even sure why it’s in your best interest to say that the anti-war rallies and the tea parties were about communism versus capitalism. Are you really doing justice to your side when you pretend that over ten times as many people rallied against it in 2003 as for it in 2009?

    At any rate, knock it off. I visit this place to have a serious discussion, and if every time I voice support for an issue, you come back with “Is that what you really want, or is it just Communism in disguise?”, then there’s no point in my being here. I’ll just download ELIZA: Conspiracy Theorist Edition and cut out the middle man entirely.

    Search my blog and see if I ever slung cries of “treason” just because a group disagreed with the President Bush’s actions. I didn’t. And I disagreed with President Bush’s actions myself at times.

    That was mostly directed to the Bill O’Reillys (O’Reillies?) of the world than at you. But don’t pretend you haven’t played the treason card for no good reason.

    [I]nstead of focusing on which party controlled the Executive Branch, take a look at which party controlled the Legislative Branch.

    If that’s what we should have been looking at, why did you mention January 20th as a benchmark date? The Dems have controlled Congress for over two years now.

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