Christopher Hitchens, like many other atheists, wrongly claims that the majority of our “Founding Fathers” (those who signed the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, and Constitution) were “Deists” and not Christians.
Oh, really? Then how does he explain things like this?
And how does he explain that these supposedly non-Christian, supposedly “Deist” founders chose to put a Bible verse on the Liberty Bell? (”Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof Lev. XXV:X“)
Hitchens also claims that there is no reference to God in the U.S. Constitution. He’s wrong there, too.
Interested in learning more about this nation’s true history?
Don’t just read my posts. Read Benjamin Franklin Morris’ 1060-page book, first published in 1864, Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States.
The only “evidence” Hitchens presented was his misinterpretation of Thomas Jefferson’s response to the Danbury Baptists. I’d like to see Hitchens respond to the 1000+ pages of evidence in Morris’ book.
The evidence is overwhelming that this country was founded by people who were predominantly Christian, with founding documents and laws based on Biblical principles. Presidents as recent as Democrat Harry Truman and Republican Ronald Reagan have acknowledged that.
April 9, 2009 at 11:22 am
It is true that several of the founding fathers were Christian, but many of the most influential ones we still talk about today were Deist. That is to say, they believed in God and generally sided with Christian doctrine, but they didn’t believe that God directly intervened in the world, and in particular were unsure of Jesus’ divinity and whether the Bible was literally the word of God.
Here’s Thomas Jefferson, on the various teachings of Jesus in the New Testament:
And Benjamin Franklin, who described himself as “a thorough Deist,” and a month before he died wrote:
More religious was John Adams. He liked the morality of Christianity, but wasn’t too convinced by the particulars:
And Thomas Paine’s beliefs need no introduction:
As to your latter point, that the use of “in the Year of our Lord” signifies any sort of religious beliefs whatsoever, stop being ridiculous. I say “A.D.” all the time, and you know damn well that I’m an atheist. I also say “bless you” when people sneeze and “goodbye” when they depart.
April 9, 2009 at 12:55 pm
You are correct that Deists did not believe that God directly intervened in the world.
While Benjamin Franklin was influenced by Deists in England and France, here is what he said at the Constitutional Convention:
April 9, 2009 at 1:28 pm
True, but surely you agree that it’s just as inaccurate to call him a Christian, given his doubts (even up to his death) about the divinity of Christ. Isn’t Jesus the whole point of Christianity?
April 9, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Even more specifically, the whole point of Christianity is Jesus Christ’s resurrection, which I will celebrate joyfully this Sunday.
As to Ben Franklin, God knows what Franklin thought of Him. I think Franklin’s advice for the Constitutional Convention delegates to pray was very wise advice, and advice that a Deist would think completely unecessary. Why pray if you don’t expect God to listen?
Perhaps we can agree on someone else… the man whose name is most recognizable on the Declaration of Independence, John Hancock, served as President of the Congress of the Colony of the Massachusetts-Bay when that congress, less than 4 months before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, passed an order mentioning “God’s superintending providence” and earnestly recommending:
April 9, 2009 at 2:28 pm
True, Hancock was one of the more religious ones. His father was a minister, after all. I tend to think, however, that it’s not the size of the signature that determines one’s importance, but rather the legacy that one leaves. And in terms of philosophical weight, the four I named above (Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and Paine) are some heavy-hitters.
I don’t think it’s correct to say that the majority of founding fathers were Deists (or at least I haven’t seen enough evidence to convince me of it), but it’s true that those who really shaped our nation held a much more watered-down view of the New Testament than the one you endorse.
April 9, 2009 at 3:56 pm
I think it might be wise for you to spend some time meditating on the border between religious traditions and religious beliefs. I’d posit that even without the latter, the former is an important part of American culture, and you’re right to draw attention to the way it has been embraced by our Founding Fathers. But it’s still foolish to conflate the two.
As if to underline that point, I won’t be able to respond for the rest of the day. I’m heading off to a Seder, my second in as many nights.
April 9, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Hancock’s signature was large, not because he thought of himself as more important than his peers, but rather because he wanted King George to be able to read it without his glasses.
It was a an emphatic rejection of King George’s tyrranny, and an emphatic show of support for an emphatic Declaration of Independence.
——
You say:
The March 16, 1776 Order from the Congress of the Massachusetts colony isn’t just about Hancock. He was the President, but look at all of the other people who “Attest”, “READ and accepted, and Ordered”, “Read and concurr’d”, and “Consented to” that order.
We’re talking about the beliefs of a majority of our founders. We’re talking about very clear evidence that what progressives today would claim as “unconstitutional” (an earnest congressional recommendation for a day of HUMILIATION, FASTING, and PRAYER; that we may with united hearts confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and by a sincere, repentance and amendment of life, appease his righteous displeasure and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain his pardon and forgiveness) was quite normal to our nation’s founders. “Separation of Church and State”, as perceived by progressives, is a farce. The first amendment was intended to protect the church from the state, and was never intended to keep Christian faith out of government activities.
April 9, 2009 at 4:18 pm
As to religious tradition…
After you enjoy the Passover Seder, “I think it might be wise for you to spend some time meditating on the” Z’roa (symbolizing the sacrifical lamb offered in the Temple in Jerusalem) and that Jesus not only shared the Passover lamb with his disciples, but the next next day became the sacrificial Lamb of God.
April 9, 2009 at 4:35 pm
A.D. most certainly has religious meaning, whether you intend that meaning or not. It’s precisely because it refers to Jesus Christ that many atheists have made up a new, secular replacement: C.E.
Given the faith of our founders, that they capitalized the L in “Lord” and more specifically said “our Lord”, I think it’s self-evident that they intended the reference to our Lord Jesus Christ.
You have every right to disagree. But have you given any thought to the universities these men attended, and the declared purpose of those universities?
For example, Harvard’s motto is “Christo et Ecclesiae” (”For Christ and the church“)
April 10, 2009 at 10:02 am
And how many of those signers do we talk about today? By contrast, Jefferson’s writings are more or less the ideological foundation of the Republican Party, and he didn’t even think Christ was the son of God.
I’m not suggesting that the Founding Fathers were less religious than we are today; that’s clearly not the case. But to portray them as some sort of monolithic block of God-fearing men who thought Christ was the answer to all the world’s problems is grossly inaccurate. Many of them, including some of the most influential, had very different opinions.
I’m not saying it doesn’t. What I’m saying is that its use does not imply that the speaker intends that meaning. Certainly I don’t, but I still use it because I like it better stylistically than C.E. (especially because of the clumsy three-letter B.C.E.). Likewise, I capitalize the L in Lord and the G in God and the B in Bible, because I believe that names and titles, even those of fictional people and works of fiction, should be capitalized. And as I mentioned above, I say “bless you” even though I think there’s no one to do the blessing, and I say “goodbye” even though I don’t believe in its literal meaning.
My use of Christian conventions in speech says nothing about my beliefs, and to assume that it does for others is foolish. Pretty much everyone I know says “A.D.” and “B.C.” (The one exception I can think of off the top of my head is an old math professor who referred to, say, 42 B.C. as “negative 42 on the time line.” It was kind of adorable.) If you want to use a piece of evidence p to support a conclusion q, p has to correlate well with q. If p is usually true even when q is false, then it’s no evidence at all. This is what I mean by “stop being ridiculous.”
April 10, 2009 at 9:53 pm
To further the points made by Jonah, Mr Pill, my family is planning a big Easter dinner for this weekend. Is it because we are celebrating Christ’s resurrection? No. I can’t think of a member of my extended family who has ever expressed a belief in God. We are having Easter dinner because we always have. I don’t believe that we should abandon all Christian traditions just because we lack the belief that started those traditions. It’s nice to have dinner with the family – that’s why we do it.
April 11, 2009 at 11:09 am
Ryan,
I’m glad your family is planning a big dinner and spending time together. That’s good. And just because you have a tradition of doing so on Easter does not make it a “Christian” tradition. It seems that we agree on that.
Jonah suggested that I spend some time meditating on the border between religious traditions and religious beliefs. I am not confused in this area.
We are not a “Judeo-Christian nation” simply because a majority of our people celebrate family traditions on Christmas and Easter, or Hanukkah and Passover.
We are a “Judeo-Christian nation” because a majority of our people have in the past, and continue today, to actually share a belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and have codified Biblical laws and principles into our founding documents and laws.
Look back at the founding documents of each of the Ivy League schools to see an indication of the value system prevelant in our society at the time of the Amercian Revolution.
Those values continued on throughout the 19th century. Here is an excerpt from the Order of services at the Centennial celebration of Harvard University, on the 8th of September, 1836:
It was only in the 20th century that the godless socialists started attacking our major universities from within, and shifting them away from their God-honoring foundation.
Demoralization in America’s Universities
April 11, 2009 at 11:19 am
April 11, 2009 at 11:24 am
April 11, 2009 at 9:13 pm
April 11, 2009 at 9:28 pm
April 11, 2009 at 9:32 pm
BY THE PRESIDENT
Of the United States of America.
A Proclamation.
AS no truth is more clearly taught in the volume of inspiration, nor any more fully demonstrated by the experience of all ages, than that a deep sense and a due acknowledgment of the governing providence of a Supreme Being and of the accountableness of men to Him as the searcher of hearts and righteous distributor of rewards and punishments, are conducive, equally, to the happiness and rectitude of individuals and to the well being of communities; as it is, also, most reasonable in itself, that men who are made capable of social acts and relations, who owe their improvements to the social state, and who derive their enjoyments from it, should, as a society, make their acknowledgments of dependance and obligation to Him who hath endued them with these capacities, and elevated them in the scale of existence, by these distinctions; as it is, likewise, a plain dictate of duty, and a strong sentiment of nature, that in circumstances of great urgency and seasons of imminent danger, earnest and particular supplications should be made to Him who is able to defend or to destroy; as, moreover, the most precious interests of the people of the United States are still held in jeopardy, by the hostile designs and insidious arts of a foreign nation, as well as by the dissemination among them of those principles subversive of the foundations of all religious, moral and social obligations, that have produced incalculable mischief and misery in other countries; and as, in fine, the observance of special seasons for public religious solemnities, is happily calculated to avert the evils which we ought to deprecate, and to excite to the performance of the duties which we ought to discharge,–by calling and fixing the attention of the people at large to the momentous truths already recited, by affording opportunity to teach and inculcate them, by animating devotion and giving to it the character of a national act:–For these reasons, I have thought proper to recommend, and I do hereby recommend accordingly, that Thursday, the 25th day of April next, be observed, throughout the United States of America, as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting and prayer–That the citizens, on that day, abstaining as far as may be from their secular occupations, devote the time to the sacred duties of religion, in public and in private: That they call to mind our numerous offences against the most High GOD, confess them before him with the sincerest penitence, implore his pardoning mercy, through the great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgressions, and that, through the grace of his Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience to his righteous requisitions in time to come: That he would interpose to arrest the progress of that impiety and licentiousness in principle and practice, so offensive to himself and so ruinous to mankind: That he would make us deeply sensible that “righteousness exalteth a nation, but that sin is the reproach of any people”: That he would turn us from our transgressions and turn his displeasure from us: That he would withhold us from unreasonable discontent,–from disunion, faction, sedition and insurrection: That he would preserve our country from the desolating sword: That he would save our cities and towns from a repetition of those awful pestilential visitations under which they have lately suffered so severely, and that the health of our inhabitants, generally, may be precious in his sight: That he would favour us with fruitful seasons, and so bless the labors of the husbandman as that there may be food in abundance for man and beast: That he would prosper our commerce, manufactures, and fisheries and give success to the people in all their lawful industry and enterprize: That he would smile on our colleges, academies, schools and seminaries of learning, and make them nurseries of sound science, morals and religion: That he would bless all magistrates from the highest to the lowest, give them the true spirit of their station, make them a terror to evil doers and a praise to them that do well: That he would preside over the councils of the nation at this critical period, enlighten them to a just discernment of the public interest, and save them from mistake, division and discord: That he would succeed our preparations for defence, and bless our armaments by land and by sea: That he would put an end to the effusion of human blood, and the accumulation of human misery, among the contending nations of the earth, by disposing them to justice, to equity, to benevolence and to peace: And that he would extend the blessings of knowledge, of true liberty, and of pure and undefiled religion, throughout the world.
And I do, also, recommend that with these acts of humiliation, penitence and prayer, fervent thanksgiving to the author of all good be united, for the countless favors which he is still continuing to the people of the United States, and which render their condition as a nation eminently happy, when compared with the lot of others.
Given under my hand and the seal of the United States of America, at the city of Philadelphia, this sixth day of March in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and ninety-nine and of the Independence of the said States the twenty-third.
JOHN ADAMS.
By the President,
Timothy Pickering,
Secretary of State.
April 11, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Note the following timeline:
————————————————
1787/09/17 – Final draft of the Constitution sent to Congress
1787/12/07 – Delaware ratifies the Constitution
1787/12/12 – Pennsylvania ratifies the Constitution
1787/12/18 – New Jersey ratifies the Constitution
1788/01/02 – Georgia ratifies the Constitution
1788/01/09 – Connecticut ratifies the Constitution
1788/02/06 – Massachusetts ratifies the Constitution
1788/04/28 – Maryland ratifies the Constitution
1788/05/23 – South Carolina ratifies the Constitution
1788/06/21 – New Hampshire ratifies the Constitution
1788/06/21 – Constitution Ratified
1788/06/25 – Virginia ratifies the Constitution
1788/07/26 – New York ratifies the Constitution
1789/03/04 – The Constitution goes into effect
1789/04/30 – President George Washington takes office
1789/09/25 – Congress passes 12 Amendments (which became Amendments 1-10, 27, and one unratified)
1789/10/03 – At the request of Congress, President George Washington issues Thanksgiving Proclamation
1789/11/20 – New Jersey ratifies Amendments 1-10
1789/11/21 – North Carolina ratifies the Constitution
1789/12/19 – Maryland ratifies Amendments 1-10
1789/12/22 – North Carolina ratifies Amendments 1-10
1790/01/19 – South Carolina ratifies Amendments 1-10
1790/01/25 – New Hampshire ratifies Amendments 1-10
1790/01/28 – Delaware ratifies Amendments 1-10
1790/02/24 – New York ratifies Amendments 1-10
1790/03/10 – Pennsylvania ratifies Amendments 1-10
1790/05/29 – Rhode Island ratifies the Constitution
1790/06/07 – Rhode Island ratifies Amendments 1-10
1791/03/04 – Vermont ratifies the Constitution
1791/11/03 – Vermont ratifies Amendments 1-10
1791/12/15 – Virginia ratifies Amendments 1-10
1791/12/15 – Amendments 1-10 ratified
1795/01/01 – President Washington issues another Thanksgiving Proclamation
————————————————
The Bill of Rights is about preserving our God-given (Endowed by our Creator) inalienable rights.
The First Amendment is about preserving our God-given (Endowed by our Creator) inalienable rights in our expression of religion: in speech, in press, in assembly, in petitioning for redress of grievances.
The First Amendment is about ensuring that the government never takes away our freedom of religious expression.
Yet today, that has been turned 180 degrees, and a phrase that doesn’t even exist in the Constitution or Bill of Rights is now being used to take away the very rights the first amendment was written to protect.
Those who best understand the “original intent” of the first amendment are those who were there when it was written and subsequently ratified in 11 states. If the original intent was as the ACLU claims, then why did President George Washington issue these religious proclamations? Why didn’t anyone object and claim that they were unconstitutional?
Realize this truth: The same congress that passed this amendment on September 25th, 1789…
…was the same Congress that asked President George Washington to issue the Thanksgiving Proclamation that was delivered a mere eight days later: October 3rd, 1789.
I repeat the assertion of this post: Atheist Hitchens is Wrong about the Founders.
April 11, 2009 at 11:08 pm
April 12, 2009 at 10:18 pm
God, Moses, Crosses and the Bible in Our Capitol Building
Church And State In Art
April 12, 2009 at 11:33 pm
April 12, 2009 at 11:40 pm
John Rodgers’s May 30, 1783 letter to George Washington suggested that Congress present each soldier with a Bible, as a gift of appreciation for their service in the Revolutionary War.
George Washington replied June 11, 1783, saying:
April 13, 2009 at 12:45 am
American Bible Society 58th Anniversary Held in Hall of U.S. House of Representatives
April 13, 2009 at 12:51 am
INSIDE A VERY CHRISTIAN U.S. CAPITOL
April 21, 2009 at 9:57 pm
[...] to Import 20,000 Bibles By itooktheredpill I initially posted this as a comment in the “Atheist Hitchens Wrong About Founders” post, but decided to break it out into its own post. [ca. July 7, 1777] The Congress desire [...]
April 22, 2009 at 10:38 pm
April 10, 2009 at 10:02 am
Jonah said:
What do you make of this?
May 20, 2009 at 6:07 am
[...] people, including the atheist Hitchens, are wrong about the [...]
March 29, 2010 at 10:48 pm
MYTH: The Founders were mostly Deists.
TRUTH: The Founders were mostly “Christians of all denominations”.
May 6, 2011 at 8:42 am
When it comes to the Founders and the Constitution, David Barton knows orders of magnitude more than Jon Stewart.
Jon Stewart threw every straw man (that his staff gave him on note cards) that he could at David Barton, and Barton knocked every single one of those straw men down. Barton has spent decades studying thousands of primary source documents. Stewart has spent minutes, possibly hours, studying the note cards his staff gave him. It was no contest. Every time Stewart threw a false accusation at Barton, Barton countered with the truth. And every time, Stewart would interrupt Barton’s answer. Stewart could only crack a joke or change the subject; he couldn’t have a straight-up discussion of the truth.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt–1
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt–2
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive—david-barton-extended-interview-pt–1
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive—david-barton-extended-interview-pt–2
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive—david-barton-extended-interview-pt–3
I would love to see a similar discussion between David Barton and “Constitutional Law” lecturer Barack Obama.
When it comes to the Founders and the Constitution, David Barton knows orders of magnitude more than Barack Obama.
May 10, 2011 at 1:43 pm
From WallBuilders
As Discussed with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show: John Adams 1809 Letter
A December 21, 1809 letter by John Adams to Benjamin Rush.
Read Letter »»
As Discussed with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show: Treaty of Tripoli
The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, specifically article XI, is commonly misused in editorial columns, articles, as well as in other areas of the media, both Christian and secular.
Read Article »»
As Discussed with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show: The Aitken Bible
Robert Aitken’s Bible was the first known English-language Bible to be printed in America, and also the only Bible to receive Congressional approval.
Read Article »»
As Discussed with Jon Stewart on The Daily Show: The Separation of Church and State
In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court declared, “The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.”
Read Article »»
Letters Between the Danbury Baptists and Thomas Jefferson
An 1801 letter from the Danbury Baptists and President Thomas Jefferson’s 1802 response in which he used the famous phrase “a wall of separation between Church and State.”
Read Letters »»
The Founders And Public Religious Expressions
An article with quotes by various Founding Fathers on pubic religious expression.
Read Article »»
May 15, 2011 at 8:35 am
for an example of the explicitly Christian missions of our great universities, consider: “The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion as set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God,” etc.
August 6, 2011 at 5:34 pm
domestic violence quotes…
Atheist Hitchens Wrong About Founders « I Took The Red Pill (and escaped the Matrix)…